Gender Differences in the BV Workplace

We sought out the views of three women whose perspectives are worth considering.  Nancy Fannon, ASA, CPA/ABV, MCBA, BVAL is the owner of Fannon Valuation Group in Portland, Maine.  Linda Schaeffer, CPA, CFE, CVA, is a Shareholder in the Princeton, NJ office of WithumSmith+Brown.  Gale Crosley, CPA, is the owner of Crosley + Company which provides revenue growth consulting and coaching for CPA firms.

BORROWMAN:

Are there challenges that women face in valuation that aren’t present in public accounting, generally, or in industry as a whole?

FANNON:

I think for anyone entering this field, you have to be of a certain mindset, whether you are a man or a woman.  You have to have a certain willingness to be challenged on what you do.  You have to have a certain attitude about how you go about your work.  You have to put yourself out there in the marketplace.  Perhaps that mindset is more common to men than to women.  But, any woman or any man who is willing to do that can be very successful in this field. 

CROSLEY:

Good question.  I think the biggest challenge I see is in litigation support where the court owns your schedule.  That’s the only place I see a significant challenge.  But, that’s a challenge for anybody in litigation support.  In terms of the receptivity of clients, the kind of work that is done, or the cultural conditions in which somebody practices business valuation, it’s no more nor less challenging in my mind than in the CPA profession or the profession that business valuation is akin to.

SCHAEFFER:

I’ve been doing litigation for so many years that I now ignore the gender issue.  I think one challenge women face is that to be heard.  Initially, we have to be very, very firm.

Women need to be careful not to get their emotions involved or to be perceived as taking an advocacy position. It’s so easy to get very engrossed in a project.  You need to take a step back.

I do think there is more of an ‘old boys’ network’ in litigation (including valuation work) as compared to public accounting.  However, I believe gender has actually helped me, long-term, in my profession. If there is any major difference in being accepted, it is generally early in your career.

BORROWMAN:

What are the advantages that women bring to the valuation industry that they might not necessarily be aware of?

SCHAEFFER:

One thing that comes to mind is the ability to listen. I think this is generally a trait women have.  We’ve had to negotiate with our children when they disagree and this is no different.  Often it feels as if you’re just dealing with older kids.  I think that our ability to mediate is much stronger.  Even though I’m working for one party in a litigation matter, I try to get to know the other side to determine their hot buttons. By knowing their hot buttons, we can often move the mediation process along.

FANNON:

I think one of the things we bring to it – at least in the women I’ve observed – is that we have a tendency to want to “work things out”.  From my perspective, I have a very, very strong feeling about fairness in the process.  I see a lot of advocacy and combativeness in my profession.  I don’t know if this is a female trait or is more just me and the women I work with, but we work very hard towards the fairness of both parties involved in the matter, no matter which side we’re on.  We want a fair result for both parties. 

CROSLEY:

Women are natural communicators.  And, they have a great deal of empathy.  When you get into some of these business valuation scenarios where people are in life-changing situations like divorce, death, partnership dissolution and so forth, there’s a component of compassion and empathy that can be very powerful in terms of adding value and – from the client’s perspective – making the experience a unique one and one worth paying a premium for.

FANNON:

I hear a lot of words like “battle”, “combat”, “opposing party”, “dangerous experts”.  We don’t think of ourselves like that, at all.  We’re just here to do a good job.

BORROWMAN:

What “ways of operating” do women need to “un-learn” to be successful in the valuation world?

CROSLEY:

The two issues that women face consistently are establishing credibility and exuding confidence.  When you get into business valuation, the need to do these two things is critical to getting the objective accomplished.  It has less to do with “un-learning” because the way they learn these things is becoming better at what they do and observing others.  Unfortunately, because we don’t have a lot of role models, there aren’t a lot of people to observe.  Naturally, we get into this question of whether or not women pick up men’s approaches because of having male models.  I just don’t know.  Where I see a female role model, a woman has an opportunity to learn to find her own unique style.  Often, it’s an easier thing to do if she has other role models.  And, that’s probably part of the bigger issue: How do you find your own unique style that works in a business environment and, yet, retains the woman pieces of you so you don’t end up looking like a guy in a woman’s suit.

SCHAEFFER:

One of the things I had to un-learn over the last couple years is that we don’t have to be as hardened.  We can get a better result by being more understanding and softer.   For many years, I tried to act like the guys did; outspoken and forceful.  I have learned that I don’t have to do that and some of the most effective ways to get your point across is to kill them with kindness.

FANNON:

We spend an awful lot of time collaborating and working a project through, and making sure to the nth degree that we’re absolutely sure.  Men have a lot easier time going with their gut instinct and saying, “I know I’m right about this” and putting it right out there.

BORROWMAN:

Are you saying that’s a way of operating that women need to un-learn, necessarily?

FANNON:

No – I think it’s a strength we have.

BORROWMAN:

One might expect that women would bring a particular sensitivity to divorce litigation work.  Is that the case?

SCHAEFFER:

Absolutely.  I work strictly with divorce matters.  You have to listen to the other side, but you have to make your side more realistic.  The process is you listen, you understand what the hot buttons are, you let them vent and then you take control.  You get your client to a more realistic point of view.  By listening and letting them vent, they’re ready to listen to you.

FANNON:

I definitely think that’s the case.  This is something I’ve been talking about in some of my presentations.  In our firm, even though we’re engaged by one party, we’re sensitive to the other party, as well.  We don’t think our side is right and the other side is wrong.  We’re sensitive that both parties are going through a real difficult time.  This is true of any matter we’re involved in.

SCHAEFFER:

Also, I’ve noticed that husbands and wives respond differently. For example, if the husband wants a divorce because he is having an affair and is feeling guilty, he will be more compromising. The wife, on the other hand, is seeking revenge.  She may be demanding a settlement that is very unreasonable. While it is important for us to be sensitive to the wife, we need to make her more realistic in her expectations. By listening to her and gaining her trust, we can then help her in reaching a fair settlement.

CROSLEY:

Without question.  That’s why I see some of the best litigation support people, especially the ones that often get called in on the wife’s side of things, be women.  I know a couple that come to mind right off the bat.  These women have a very compassionate side to them.  If I were in a divorce proceeding I would want someone like that in my corner.

BORROWMAN:

How does that contrast, however, with the need to have something of a competitive approach and the ability to withstand a grilling from opposing counsel?

CROSLEY:

Well, if you talk to either of these women, you’ll find they’re tough cookies.  Because that’s why they’re so good at what they do.  They’ve been able to marry the soft side and the tough side.  In my mind, that’s a beautiful thing to behold.  They’ve been able to walk that tightrope and draw on any one of a number of qualities in themselves as they execute divorce litigation support.

BORROWMAN:

What has been the seriousness of gender bias that you’ve experienced?  How have you responded to it?

FANNON:

I wish I could tell you I’ve experienced it.  Well, no I don’t.  I don’t think I’ve had any place or anytime in my career that I’ve experienced it.  Maybe I’ve been oblivious to it.  In fact, I can actually say the opposite.  I think it’s given me opportunities that, otherwise, I wouldn’t have gotten if I weren’t a woman.  What I mean by that is, sometimes, people will be looking for a woman to fill out a position they need.  Maybe they need a woman for a particular board.  I’m not stupid.  I know that’s gotten me to a place I might not otherwise have gotten.  And, what I end up doing is working ten times as hard because I want to prove I’m not there just because I’m a woman.

SCHAEFFER:

The first case I did was in 1983 with a female attorney and her female client.  A prominent and rather cocky group of men referred to us as the “Three Musketeers”.  The case of involved a significant amount of fraud which included a separate mistress, a separate daughter and a second set of books (that we had a copy of!) They refused our attempts at a settlement and forced us into court where we won, hands-down.

That was my first case and the first, as well, for the attorney who is now a very prominent attorney in New Jersey.  I didn’t want to do divorce work because of this type of attitude.  We weren’t taken seriously, at all.  They expected us to lose, primarily because we were women. Obviously, we won the respect of the Court, as well as our client. Word spread quickly that we were a good team!

FANNON:

There have been times when I’ve been told I’ve been selected as an expert because the client thinks it will play out better to the jury.  I find that interesting.  I’ve not seen it, but I’ve been told there is evidence that juries do respond better to a woman expert. 

SCHAEFFER:

For many years, I had a tendency to represent the non-income spouse because they were the ones who needed discovery of assets and other financial help.  When I eventually started getting male clients, I asked them why they choose me.   Often the answer was that they didn’t want me on the other side. 

I think gender was a problem in the first ten years of being in litigation. Eventually, you earn respect and gender is not an issue. With that said, I sometimes feel I’m looked down upon because I do divorce work as compared to criminal investigation, fraud, or other litigation work.  However, I believe divorce is more difficult because it requires all the elements of these other areas. In addition, it has the complexity of dealing with individual’s emotions.

CROSLEY:

I think that my experience has been similar to other women of my generation, because we started way back when there weren’t all that many women in public accounting.  As an example, I have three women out of a couple hundred people in my accounting graduating class.  What I’ve found is that we all have similar experiences.  I would tell you that they were all about trailblazing, because we had no choice.  We were either going to do it and get comfortable at it, or we would not succeed.  We had to figure out how we were going to thrive – not only survive, but thrive – in this environment.  These days, because we have more women, the issues are somewhat different. Work/life balance, for example, was not an issue when there were very few women in the profession. Creating conditions for female enrichment is a contemporary issue, because staffing shortages dictate that we don’t lose a significant portion of our professional labor pool.

FANNON:

I think this is a great career for women.  I know that the bias exists, but I don’t think I’ve experienced it.  Sometimes I think I have nothing I can say about it.  In terms of the women I’ve worked for, or worked for me, it just hasn’t happened.

Visit Gale Crosley on line at http://www.crosleycompany.com/